East 67th Street, between Madison and 5th avenue was blocked off by barricades and a handful of policemen. The group of writers, who admitted a restaurant in the neighborhood, were stopped by the police at the corner. We waited until clearance came from the Cuban Mission building near the center of the block, and then walked into a large townhouse through a type line of New York’s finest, making comments and nudging us as we tried to get through the door.

We waited in the storeroom for about a half an hour and then went upstairs into a large room with a high ceiling, a desk, a marble fireplace, chandeliers and three sofas partially surrounding a large coffee table. The writers ranged themselves on the sofa, and Comandante Guevara knelt on the floor in front of the table. Those standing soon settled down on the floor around the table next to him.

Comandante Guevara was dressed in pressed military fatigues and polished black boots. During the conversation he was in constant motion, lying on his side, shifting to a squatting position, back to a side, resting his head on his hands, and puffing constantly on a cigar. Constant motion. Guevara was relaxed - joked much, smiled always.

The conversation was hardly orderly and much of it was of little real use. At least a portion of those present seemed more interested in advice on how to conduct North American revolution, than on information or analysis of the Cuban. And for the good portion of the discussion such questions were more revealing than the answers.

Guevara, too, quickly sensing that the session will be less than demanding, began to take the questions in the spirit of general humor. None the less there were portions that may be interesting. I have re-organized the material somewhat and left out several lengthy digressions, and from time to time, I rephrased the question. Guevara’s answers however are unretouched and presented exactly as they were given.

One area of the discussion dealt with his own revolutionary past, and his analysis of the Cuban guerrilla struggle.

Q:  You are an Argentinean by birth. And rather than make a revolution in Argentina, you went out and as I understand you traveled and stayed in several countries before coming into conjunction with Fidel Castro in Mexico. I would like to ask, how you look back up on your ….. As some kind of lucky juncture or that somehow you were searching until a revolutionary situation ... or?

Che:  It seems to be a question to be answered after three or four drinks and in a more intimate atmosphere. Generally, we could say, there are some moments in our revolution that are, things completely mad. The attack against the Moncada Barracks, the expedition of the Granma, the struggle with the handful of men that remained, the defense against the last great attack by the dictatorship in the Sierra Maestra, the invasion of the province of Las Villas, the seizure of the principal towns. If you analyze each one of these, you reach the conclusion that there was an element of madness, something crazy about these actions. And because all of them as a chain led to the seizure of power, you may have to reach the conclusion that in order to seize power you have to be a little crazy. At least not to be afraid of what may happen. And, honestly, we were not afraid.

Q:  At what point did you know that you had won?

Che:  That’s a question for a film by the United States Information Agency. [The journalists laugh.]

Someone then asked if audacity in to certain craziness were necessary to make a revolution. How these qualities could be kept and nurtured after the revolution had been successful? How does a government prevent the growth of byrocracy?

Che:  That is the question that reformulates itself. It needs a series of answers, of experimentation, but we can’t answer it yet. Maybe in a few years.

Q:  About keeping our audacity alive: have there been any changes in Cuban education in terms of preventing youngsters from growing up into small …. Bureaucrats?

Che:  We were discussing that the other day. You are repeating the question. Yes, there have been. We have not structured it as a system yet, but we’ve established a link between education and work. The students co-operate, helping out in different agricultural projects. The student also learns the meaning of this work, for example, picking coffee. Only those students who have passed all subjects have the right to pick coffee. Work is a prize.
The kinds of schools in difficult places, for example, the school of volunteer teachers in the Sierra Maestra. And other experiments of that sort.

Q:  Almost all American psychoanalysts say that the social revolutionary as a type is immature and is fighting out infantile problems. You are trained as a psychoanalyst and you are social revolutionary. Would you care to comment on this view of American.

Che:  I don’t think we have to look. We don’t need to be so detailed in the appreciation of facts. Revolutionary people are not normal people. That I can assure you. But in the long run the important thing is that the capacity for sacrifice and construction be developed. The revolutionary makes the revolution, but the revolution makes the revolutionary. And there is an interrelationship, a constant interrelationship. And the revolutionary will achieve a higher level of consciousness.
Why did it start? We can leave that to psychoanalysts, but the final fact is a result of the struggle and of the actions of the masses on the revolutionary.

 Q:  In many ways Cuban revolutionary movement has been unique. At this point do you think there are any lessons from that uniqueness that can be adopted to other revolutionary movements either another Latin American countries or here?

Che:  Oh, I did not use the word “unique.” I object to the word “unique.” I said “crazy.” But there are a lot of crazy people in the world.  The social basis that brought Cuba to a revolution is very similar to those of all Latin American countries. And even more so in Venezuela: the same mistakes we made have been made there, and they have followed the same road we followed. They did not learn anything from our mistakes, but they’re moving in the right direction.
Too much emphasis on fighting in towns and in the cities. You lose too many cadres and there is not enough gain. Very spectacular, but that’s all. The alliance with a number of military people in attempting a coup d’état, like Carrupero and Porto Cabello.

The discussion also ranged for some time on developments throughout Latin America and an analysis of the various Latin American countries. Guevara was asked at one point whether the United States allegation that the weapons used in Venezuela by the guerrillas were of Czech manufacturer exported from Cuba.

Guevara replied that Cuba did have a lot to do with the problem of Venezuelan weapons, because Cuba had said for a long time that the only way to liberate the country when you do not have weapons, you have to rise with the weapons you have, and then have to take the rest of the weapons from the enemy. To that extent, he said, they were responsible. He emphasized ….. however when speaking of other Latin American countries, that conditions were different everywhere, had to be analyzed and that there was no formula for revolutionary struggle. For example he’s asked:

Q:  Would you offer the analysis of the Brazilian debacle?

Che:  It’s too much to ask, to make an analysis. The country is about 80 times the size of Cuba, and has 10 times its population, so for us to make an analysis here, like that, would be a little presumptuous. The fundamental thing is that the leftist organizations and the popular masses trusted the so-called institutions, and institutions cannot be trusted unless they belong to a same class. And, naturally, the army did not belong to the proletariat. I would say this is a synthesis, not an analysis.

Q:  What does the major think about the case of Puerto Rico? Can it be settled within UN or eventually Puerto Rico must have to appeal to the same means as Venezuela for example?

 Che:  Puerto Rico is a different case from that of Venezuela. From the point of view of the struggle itself or the possibilities for the struggle and naturally it is a colonial people, with the circumstances of it being within the North American system--the number of Puerto Ricans who live in the U.S. The pressure they put on the whole culture of the Puerto Rican people, and, in short, the pressure on its idea as the people. Those circumstances make struggle very difficult. If it reached the proportions of an armed struggle, it would have to have different characteristics. The size of the island and the populations prevent a similar struggle. When conditions are ripe and the people of Puerto Rico are in a position to achieve their liberty, their freedom. If the Americans do not yield, the people will find a way to struggle. I am neither a prophet nor a professor, nor a professor of liberation. It depends on the people.

Q:  Do you think there’s a man in Puerto Rico who could replace Albizu?

Che:  Men come from the masses and the man is there. They have to come from there.

Q:  Do you think it will be possible for a Latin America to live in peace without the fall of the United States government?

Che:  It’s a difficult question. At least for time being all we know is that there will be a need for fighting, for struggle.

As I said earlier much of the discussion was an attempt to get an analysis of the United States situation and to give advice on revolutionary tactics here in this country. To one such question Guevara replied:

Q:  Could you tell, how do you see considering recent events of last summer and the recent events in Mississippi, how do you see the struggle of Negro people in America?

Che:  That’s a very difficult question for me to answer. Not to know all the reactions of American people as a whole, the relationships among whites and colored, the capability for reaction among the colored people, the capability of the leaders, in short we would have to know great detail, a lot of aspects which I do not know.
Generally it seems that racial violence is flourishing in some North American states. In front of that, in the face of that there are some resources, or some means, some ways. We can bow a little lower to see if the blow hurts less, we can protest with energy and then receive more blows, or, respond blow by blow. But that’s very easy to say and it’s very difficult to do and there must be preparation in order to do that. I don’t know what the reaction would be and what the possibilities of a reaction would be. I cannot predict it.

More specifically at one point Guevara was asked if he would recommend guerrilla warfare in the United States, recognizing that this is a highly developed and urbanized country. Guevara replied:

Che:  Now to think about guerrilla warfare in the United States… If you asked my advice, I would tell you not to try it. And I’m not saying that out of sympathy for the government.

Along the same lines, with perhaps more seriousness Guevara replied to a question of whether or not the Cuban government planned to start a large propaganda campaign in the United States to reach large numbers of the American people?

Che: If we in Cuba tried to manufacture a razor blade to compete with Gillette’s, we would need millions and millions for its propaganda, and that’s to compete with just one product. Can you imagine how much money for propaganda we would need in order to compete with all the products of the United States? – radio stations, television, newspapers! We would need half the budget of the United States in order to carry that out, and we don’t have that.
It’s better to wait for the people to understand. In the long run people can overcome all problems caused by propaganda.
If Gillette made the kind of blade that we make in Cuba, nobody would buy it, no matter how much Gillette spent on propaganda. [The journalists laugh.] See, propaganda has its limits. And the limitations of propaganda against Cuba are in the truth held by the Cuban people and the truth of our revolution. We can wait it out.

The other major topic during our conversation with Comandante Guevara, was Cuban – American relations. He said that he was sure that eventually normal relations would be restored between Cuba and the United States. He said that Cuba had made numerous attempts to normalize these relations, but that the United States had made none. Asked how ……. might be achieved, Guevara said that he doesn’t know, I then asked him:

Q:  Is the United States’ attempt to isolate Cuba from other western countries being more or less successful?

Che:  With regard to the governments, it has been an almost complete success; with regard to the peoples, every day is less successful.

Q:  How serious is this on the Cuban economy?

Che:  The isolation from Latin America has no consequences. Our economic problems from two places: from the United States and, sometimes, from our own crazy actions. Those crazy actions which do not permit us to do other things, mistakes, ignorance. We took over a whole state to cover a complete state, we changed the whole structure of the state, whole system, and we had to create a whole new thing. You will make mistakes there, and …… those are our two enemies. Ignorance to improvise, on the one hand, and the United States on the other. We are overcoming the first mistake, and the second one, too.

The last question of the discussion dealt with what one of the writers called ‘the Chinese position’, that it was better for under-developed countries to improve their economies on a labor of their own people rather than to rely on the economic assistance of the great powers. Guevara replied to this:

Che:  It’s a very delicate question to deal here. Everyone had own reasons to act the way he does. We do not only trust our own forces. We trust the forces of the Socialist bloc. And we ask for their help because it’s our duty a members of the international proletariat to ask for that help, because our struggle does not belong only to us, it belongs to all peoples of the world. And we cannot let it fail.

These are the ..… from the discussion with Che Guevara, the Cuban minister of the economy. The discussion was held on Wednesday evening, December 16th at the New York Cuban Mission headquarters on East 67th Street in New York City. Those taking part included a large number of socialist writers and journalists, the exurbs were selected from the longer conversation, but Comandante Guevara’s answers would in cells left intact. This is Chris …..